NUMBER: 09-008-07
GROUP: Engine
DATE: November 07, 2007
SUBJECT:
3.8L Engine Oil Seepage Due To Front Timing Cover Surface Porosity
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the 3.8L engine timing cover.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience oil seepage from the engine. The oil seepage may be due to surface porosity in the aluminum material used to make the engine timing cover. This surface porosity is located on the surface that mates to the engine block.
The source of the oil seepage may be misdiagnosed. The following are areas where the engine oil seepage may be noticed due to the timing cover porosity:
a). Timing Cover – The seepage may appear as a gasket leak between the cover and the engine block.
b). Oil Filter- The timing cover porosity may lead to an oil seepage at the oil filter or immediate area of the oil filter. The technician may believe that the oil filter is at fault.
c). Unused Oil Filter Adapter Boss – Oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display at the face of the unused oil filter adapter boss. The adapter boss is on the lower left side of the engine.
d). Oil Pan – The technician may believe that the oil pan gasket is at fault.
e). Rear Seal Carrier – The oil may seep along an unused open oil galley and display in the area of the rear crankshaft seal carrier. The technician may believe that the rear crankshaft seal is at fault.
f). Front Crankshaft Seal – The porosity in the timing cover above or around the front crankshaft seal may cause the technician to believe that the front crankshaft seal is at fault.
I have a 2007 Wrangler Sahara 4dr. 4×4, I’m using 1/2qt. oil every 3000 mi. I can not find any oil leaks, the vehicle has 15,000 mi on it. The dealers are trying to tell me this is normal! I’m using the factory reuired oil. I think the 3.8 v/6 is probably a bulk oil grenade eng. Any info.
My 07 Sahara 2dr has a leak as well. The dealer told me the same thing as well. There was no leaking underneath or anywhere I could see. Now at 21000 mi I can see a leak somewhere around the intake manifold-top of the water pump area. Looks like it is leaking into the valley pan. Today I am taking it in to get the intake gasket replaced. They told me it was “industry standard” for a i quart per 3000 oil leak. I never had a car leak like that. What the hell kind of industry standard is that??
industry standard yeah right find an environmental agency state or federal and inform them of that. 1 quart of oil can contaminate 10 acres of land let alone if it gets into the water table. and then burning a quart of oil there is no way that would meet an emission test
I have this leak as well at the same place as Gary above does it is going in this week.
I am armed with the TSB as well as federal and provincial guidelines for spilled oil as well as Material safety data sheets for used motor oil. and present them with a business card from a local reporter.
why is it so hard to deal with dealers?
Scott
I’ve been into the stealership 4 times for this. Each time they made the wrong diagnosis[the ones in the tsb]. After [apparently] doing this tsb [new cover] no leaks till two days later. I took it back in and was told it was just residual oil on the clips and lines. They said they cleaned it all out, but two days later there’s that drip again[on the juncture of the the tranny/engine]. They told me it was probably still left over oil-that they currently have dye in my engine and to drive it over the weekend and they will look at it again. I pulled out my own blacklight and the drip glowed. I don’t know for sure if that is a real leak, or if it is old dye from the first couple times??
The lemon law in my state is 4 ‘reasonable’ attempts. I think I’ve been MORE than reasonable. I’ll post back after next week… wish me luck!
For Joe Koster:
1/2 quart of oil per 3,000 miles is not only normal, it’s generally better than normal. It’s not leaking, it’s being burned in the combustion chambers. Oil scraper rings don’t prevent every trace of oil from leaking by. That’s not possible. If you were using 1 quart every 1,000 miles I’d say that it would be worth investigating. However, 1/2 quart every 3,000 miles…. perfectly normal, even for a top dollar Lexus or Benz.
I have a 2008 6 speed. When I have to ride the clutch going in reverse for any reason, I get clutch burn. The dealer told me I had oil leakage from the crankshaft bolts and it ran onto the clutch plate. Replaced the clutch, pressure plate, etc,and it still does the same thing.
Any idea what is going on?
I use almost a quart every 3000 miles in my 07 jk.Dealer has never found a leak.I think it is just burning it
meant to say no leak
It is nice to know that others are experiencing the same issues with their jeep. i have an ’08 wrangler unlimited and have been told that it is normal the my oil burns. other cars i’ve had did not seem to have that issue. now i know that i need to check my oil levels more frequently. are there any other things i should check often that they don’t tell you at the dealership?
I am also experiencing the same problem as you guys with my Jeep Sahara. I have added 2 quarts of oil since I purchased my jeep in 2007, which I think is not significant. I have 32800 miles now and check my engine quite often to be safe than sorry, but then again I find no leaks or seepage. However, I have found that my rear differential cover has oil seepage and brought to the service dealer, but the dealer tells me its normal and did not do anything about it. The irony to this is that they recommended that I should change the brake fluid system and my rear brakes?! at a cost of almost $600.
It sucks that you have to think that they are always trying to get something out of your pocket for something you know that you don’t need!
How can we even know if these dealerships are doing their job and their recommendations to their customers? No matter what you say or do…you’ll always get the end of the stick and thats up the ying yang!
I am just finding out now that there is so many recalls of the Jeep 2007 Wranglers.
I have been looking for recalls etc against my 2008 Rubi unlimited. I would venture to say the engine oil problem is not going to be any different. Would like to warn all who have or will purchase one of these. My front axle was OVERFILLED, noticed oil coming out the breather vent (that’s about 20″ above the axle!). It also came out the right side seal. I pulled the fill plug and about a pint came out. Gear oil should be level with the fill hole.
I just experienced this on my brand new 2010 Sahara unlimited after 1400 miles! Needless to say I was shocked! first trip to the deal they told me it was the oil pressure sensor (which was replaced. Got home still leaking around where the tranny meets the engine. Went back the same day they and they put dye in it. Then out of desperation I found this link. took it again,and thay had advised same thing regarding timing cover.it’s getting repaired as I write this. hopefully the only leak in the future is, the $$$ to fill er up:) thanks again for the great info!
my 07 wrangler takes a quart every 3000 miles, I am planning of putting a thicker oil like 10w30mobil shyntec, do you think this will siolve the problem!
my 07 had the same problem, after letting them do the oil consumption test on it, they put a new motor in it. it is not using oil now but have a knocking noise when idles it stops with increased rpms or the clutch is engaged
I have the same problem. No leaks and using oil at about a quart every 2,000 miles. Jeep runs great and doesnot seem to lag, and engine runs great. I use Mobil 1 synthetic, and change the oil every 5000 miles. I had it changed yesterday and it already looks dirty, I drove it 36 miles this morning. Do I need to change the oil more frequently? I never had these problems with the straigt 6.
I have the same problem. 36k miles, 2008 JK Sahara. I burn through quart/1000 miles. No leaks. I am going to take it to the dealer and see what they say.
I have serious oil consumption issues with my 08 wrangler. I have to add at least 4 if not 5 quarts between each oil change. It has always been serviced faithfully and doesn’t appear to have any leaks nor excessive smoking when start up or running.
I have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler Sahara and it started using oil at 12K. I now has 25K and uses approx. 2 quarts every 4K miles. I took it to the local dealership and they performed an oil consumption test and let me know that all was normal but I don’t agree with their theory with everything being fine. A new vehicle should not be using oil at this rate. I have been in contact with Chrysler and have had no luck in getting this problems resolved. To anyone having the same problems, please feel free to contact me at sb96899689@yahoo.com. I believe it is time to take a legal stand against Chrysler for not standing behind their products.
I have to say this 07 wrangler was my 5th jeep and I never had to add oil between changes. This one however needed about 3 quarts between 6 thousand mile changes of 5w20 synthetic. I would say this oil consumption was over the top. I could not detect any leaks anywhere; very weird. Not valve rings, or gaskets that I could see. I decided it was time to rid myself of this crappy engine and try to stay away from my favorite car of all times. I am sorry to say AMERICA needs to learn how to make a decent engine like the inline 6 they use to make for JEEP.
I recently purchased a used Sahara Jeep Wrangler with 21,000 miles. When I changed the oil at 3000 miles I had less than one quart come out of the oil pan. I was shocked!!!!!!! I had no idea, the oil level light never came on, no knocks, no smoking, nothing. I called the dealer and they said it was normal to burn a quart of oil per 1500 miles. What about 4.5 quarts per 3000 miles? My 1996 Ford F150 with 120000 miles dosent burn a quart between changes. Something is wrong with this engine!!!!!! Why hasnt there been a recall on these 3.8 engines? I hate to trade it in for someone else to have this problem….Any ideas????????
I just added 3.5 quarts !!! to my 2008 3.8L jk unlimited 56k miles, i bought the thing new…last oil change was this Jan/11. The only thing that tipped me off was starting it up the other morning ;it clattered then quieted after 3-5seconds. this engine has used more oil than any other I’ve ever had been using about 2 quarts between changes…you’d think this thing had over 200k on it.i do have lifetime drive train warranty,that’s why i bought it hopefully they’ll honor it if the time comes.
3.8L engine seized April 17, 2011 on 2008 jeep wrangler sahara unlimited. 49,000 miles. Original owner. We changed the oil ourselves 4 months and 5,000 miles ago. Now dealer is saying that Chrysler says we need to prove we bought oil and changed it in order to be covered under the lifetime powertrain warranty. We go to the auto store and pay cash and don’t keep receipts. Where would 4 – 5 quarts of oil go in this short of time? There were no leaks. Any ideas on how to get this covered under the much-heralded “lifetime” warranty?
Just took my 2007 Unlimited Sahara to the dealership after a ticking noise started in the engine. I have had to put alot of oil in it every month, usually 2 quarts. The other day after the ticking started I put 5 quarts in it. They are now asking $450 to take the engine apart and find out what the damage or noise is coming from. I am not covered under the lifetime power warranty. I have never had to put so much oil in a vehicle before and they say it’s normal!! At no time since i had this vehicle, did the oil light come on to warn me of low oil. I don’t know what to do. Can someone help? Let me know if you know of something to help please. nicolasvowden@gmail.com
I HAVE A 08 JEEP WRANGLER 2 DOOR.TRASHED MY ENGINE AT 18,000 MILES.WENT OUT TO WARM IT UP IT SOUNDED LIKE A DIESEL ENGINE.OH WHAT JOY THAT WAS,LOL.TOOK IT TO THE DEALER TO FIX OF COURSE THEY GAVE ME A BUNCH OF REASONS NOT TO FIX IT.OMG I LAUGHED SO HARD AT THEM,THEY SAID I HAD NO OIL IN IT,AS A LUBE TECH I WAS HOWLING,SAID IT WAS MY FAULT,STILL LMAO I TOLD THEM I JUST CHANGED MY OIL 500 MILES AGO,EVEN UNDER WARRANTY THEY GAVE ME THE RUN AROUND.LONG STORY SHORT THE FIXED ME UP,KEEP CHECKING THAT OIL IN THE 3.8
I have a 2007 Jeep Wrangler and I usually burn about 2 1/2 quarts every 1200 miles. This is my second jeep wrangler, and Im extremely upset. I have had three oil consumption test, and they all keep saying the same thing. I also have ticking sound coming from the front of the engine…they need to recall these engines!
Have a 07 JK Unlimited X consuming oil that is referred by Chrysler as acceptable oil consumption. I can only guess that the “acceptable oil consumption“ is why Chrysler didn’t list/install an oil pressure gauge in the JK series. No reason to put everyone on notice right off the bat. Let them fish around for awhile…
Owning a 1973 CJ5 with the 304 in it, original and still runs great 90k miles 1/2 quart between changes. I had a buddie come to me about looking at his 2009 Jk. He told me he is using 2 quarts between oil changes and the dealer here is giving him the runaround. Needless to say we tore into the engine only to find at our disbelief cracked rings. With only 10k miles on it he is now filing a law suit against Chrysler due to their neglence on the issue. I truely hope something is resolved for all you JK owners.
I have a 08 wrangler Rubicon 4 door with 56000 on it, about 10000 miles ago i started noticing oil loss of about 1 quart every 3000 miles it uses now up to 2.5 quarts per 3000. I have changed my oil every 3000 miles faithfully. The dealership insists that this is normal. I am amazed that so many people out there are experiencing the same issue, I would be interested in some kind of reply to Chrysler. any comments ?
I own a 2007 Jeep Wrangler 2 dr with 70,000 miles. I have had consumption issues since first oil change. Had die tests done for leakes, no leaks. consuming 3 qrts every 5,000 miles. Was told by factory that this is normal oil consumtion ( this is BS ). Was told by master mechanic ( can’t reviel name) than many 2007’s 3.8 motors were released with piston rings that were incorrect in diameter. Therefore getting blowby and burn. There is suppose to be a recall notice but we can’t find it (how convenient). We will keep searching and will post when found. We were told if we could find it and print it out our motor will be replaced. You help us and if we find it we will help you.
I have a 2008 Rubicon Unlimited that I purchased new. I also purchased additional maintenance package with oil changes.Dealer changes oil every 3500 miles. I noticed a knocking noise and checked oil and it was 3 quarts low added oil and it was still knocking. Took it to dealer and had it serviced and picked it up and was still knocking.Took it back to dealer, they pulled the oil pan and my main bearings were fried. Dealer had area claims rep. looked at motor and said that it would not be covered warranty because of oil starvation and that it states in manual that oil should be checked every gas fill up. So my JK is sitting at the dealer as we speak.
Dealer is saying that the can not do anything for me.
Frustrated Rich
I traded my 04 Sahara for a used 08 Sahara Unlimited with 34,000 miles. The 04 had 142,000 miles on it with no oil use problem. The dealer had serviced the 08 befor I took it off the lot. After about 1400 miles I check the oil and it was a quart and half low. The 08 is using a quart per 1100 miles. It sounds like i’m not alone. Its not bad enough that the 3.8 is a slug but it has to burn oil too. I miss my TJ. Hope we can get enough voices together to get some action on this problem.
I am having the same issues. I am from Canada so I burned 4 liters in 5000km. I was also told it is normal. They can’t explain why it just started. They even gave me a nice piece of paper from Chysler so I felt better I guess. I will just keep taking it back every 1000km. Any mechanic I know says there is something wrong.
I have the same problem as everyone else in this forum. My 2007 Sahara Unlimited has 35000 mile and is burning oil at about 2 1/2 quarts for every 3000 miles. We should all get together and plan a mass lawsuit to repair our vehicles. Please contact me if anyone has resolved this issue. Aug970@gmail.com
New from factory 2007 Wrangler Sahara. Started noticing oil consumption at about 40k miles, but no visible leaks at all. Progressively more consumption over the next year or so.
Hit 80k miles this week (Dec. 2011) and suddenly the thing is dripping all over the driveway like a old wreck.
The oil seems to be coming from somewhere either around the oil filter, or the bottom pulley. Unfortunately, the belt has flung it everywhere, so it’s hard to see where it’s originating.
We’ll see what the dealer has to say about the TSB report?!
One other really weird thing is this jeep, even from the first day, seems to have a lot of valve clatter like it’s being under-revved, or in too low of a gear for the speed. Never seems to affect performance, just sounds like a diesel (it’s not a diesel), and goes away at high rev’s but doesn’t seem right. Anyone else have this noise?
…er, meant the valve clatter sounds like “too high” of of a gear for the speed.
I have the same issues but when mine started at 48,000 it was 1 1\2 qt/1000. The dealerships are as worthless as the warranty they clame to give you.The warranty is nothing but a trick to get you in so you will buy and they have no intention of standing behind their product. I own John Deere tractors and that company stands behind their product. If anyone is starting a class action law suit about this matter please let me in. All Jeep is telling me is ” using 1 1/2 qts?1000 miles is acceptable.” Thanks for letting me vent!
My 2007 Jeep Wrangler 3.8L motor was just replaced this week, and it only had 76,000 miles on it. This is unacceptable. I hope there is a class action lawsuit that makes Chrysler repair all affected vehicles, and reimburse for repairs, such as mine, that costed me $4200. I started having serious oil consumption issues at 50,000 miles, and have read a lot of others with the same issue. I traded a 1993 Jeep that had almost 200,000 miles that never burned any oil. I have owned quite a few cars, and have never seen any issues like this. I am going to drive the car until the end of my new engine warranty expires, and I am switching to Japanese cars from that point forward. I will no longer waste my money on American. My 1993 Jeep had 200k miles on it, and it ran strong. American cars are definitely the worst built cars in the world, and our government should have never bailed them out.
The tsb is not a recall or warranty item, it just helps the tech know what the issue is. I too have an 07 JKU and am losing oil around 1qt per 2000 miles and noticed some seepage (but not a drop on the ground) around the oil filter. At first I thought the dealer put the filter on wrong. I did the next oil change myself, placed a better oil filter on it, am still noticing oil seepage at the same place. When I had it in to get the water pump repalced they said my lower intake manifold was causing the leak..now I begin to wonder. Plus, my tranny lines are starting to weep..all at only 55K miles. Kind of wish I bought the Toyota FJ instead.
I have a 2008 Sahara as well with the same oil consumption problems 1quart/1,000miles. Is everyone ready to file a class action lawsuit against Chrysler for this problem since we all agree that this is not normal?
Holy SH*t fellas. I’m just hearing of this consumtion issue as my 07 Wrangler sits at the dealership. I’m blaming my mechanic after the last oil change thinking he may have let it go out with out a full fill. This is after finding NO oil in my jeep after 4,000. No oil light or warning and no other previous issues to give me any inclination that maybe I’ve got to have my finger in the oil while I’m driving this 3.8 V6 around so it doesn’t disappear before I get home. What the hell Chrysler? I love my jeep, but this engine sucks. I’m staring at a bill for a $6000 long block, 5800 short, and a used for 3800. These dealerships are money hungry leeches. Stand behind your damn product. I say factory recall the “Disappearing OIL V6 Engine”
What sad joke…
i have a 2010 jeep wrangler. going through oil test too. using bout 1 quart evey 1000 miles. they also tell me this is normal. i only have 35000 miles been going on since it had 29000 miles. we need to get this out to people and advise them not to buy one of this jeeps. they wont stand behide thier product.
So anyone know how much the parts are to fix this? My 07 (bought Jan of 07) has always used a little oil but recently it has developed a leak exactly as described. Mine also has 114K miles on it so I was not overly suprised although it should not be leaking anywhere. Of course it is out of warrenty as I chose to opt out of purchasing the lifetime (it was offered months after I bought mine). This repair is on me to pay for and to tell the truth I refuse to pay the stealership to work on it especially if I might be able to do it myself.
I am in the same boat. I bought a used 2008 last year and am burning 2 quarts between oil changes. Additionally, I have the dreaded ticking noise in the front of the engine and knocking upon start up which seems to be way too common. I wrote to Chrysler as well as gone to the dealer and both pretty much are useless. Like most of you, I am a previous Jeep owner and think it may be my last. Oh and who else has the rusted muffler staring at everyone that is behind you? I have painted mine twice now. Awesome! If I didn’t hate Toyota, I would concider a switch!
For the 2nd time in less than a year I checked oil and found no oil registering on dip stick. Have faithfully had oil changed on my 07 JK Sahara Unlimited since buying it (now 83K miles). This last time it took 3 quarts just to register something on bottom of dipstick when checking oil. Last oil change was 5k miles (5 months ago). And neither incident did the oil pressure light come on EVER! I will definitely start checking this more frequently. Have had no issue with MPG (actually got 22MPG last 200 mile hwy trip last week) and average about 18MPG for combo driving for life of Jeep. Would like to see some kind of recall or TSB etc to CORRECT (not just admit/address) this issue. I just lodged complaint on NHTSA website – I know this doesn’t do much unless A LOT of people do it then then will look at it seriously. I filed a complaint on previous car (FORD) and was contacted several times about resolutions etc… but have since traded that car in.
I am wondering what most/all of you are using for oil? Synthetic or standard? I had a similar issue with an 08 2dr Rubicon I just bought 2 weeks ago. Picked it up private sale. Next morning I heard a warning chime but thought that maybe the engine rpm dropped too low and it almost stalled (6 speed, still getting used to the clutch). Also had arm over guages while backing up so I didn’t see any warning lights. Drove 14 miles to work without incident. Decide to run to the bank in the afternoon. Started the vehicle and when it was idling I heard the chime again. Didn’t see the light. Took off with no incident, but everytime I came to a stop I heard the chime and finally noticed the idiot light flashed for a quick second. The sticker on the window showed that it was due for an oil change in a few hundred miles so I though maybe it was an oil change required notification. Still didn’t want to take a chance in the off chance it was low on oil. Fortunatly the garage I use was only a block away so I banged a quick U-turn and stopped in. Pulled the dipstick out and it was bone dry! Put 5 quarts in (six quarts capacity). Spoke to previous owner and he stated he hadn’t had any problems but that he changed the oil every 3,000 miles. He did say he was using a synthetic oil in it. This vehicle is not shipped from the factory with synthetic. My point is I was taught that you should not switch a vehicle over to synthetic once it has been using regular oil ( for a number of reasons). I did have them put 5 quarts of synthetic in it and two weeks later it was already down 1/2 a quart. Yesterday I decided to have the oil and filter changed and decided to switch back to a regular oil except slightly heavier than the original factory spec (for the summer). I will be curious to see how it does. I will post an update after another 1000 miles. In the meantime I would still be curious if any of you were using a synthetic oil? Glad I found this site!
how do you spell ‘junk’. wake up people these vehicles are junk and CHRYSLER CRAPORATION knows it. stop buying their vehicles an maybe they will build better. i just bought a 2011 wrangler and i regret it already , 4,000 miles are on it now and i KNOW it’s garbage, CHEVY from now on. my 94 S 10 burns no oil and is reliable as an anvil.
2008 JKU. I had many the same problems as mentioned. Dealer just replaced small block under warranty at 70,000 miles. Very little fight which I was surprised about given all of the message boards that are lit up with problems. The only out of pocket costs were the spark plugs and oil pressure valve. They stated that the port holes where the oil goes to the upper part of the engine were sealed. I have been religious about my oil changes every 5k miles with Royal Purple.
Confirmed Jeep Nut!! Owned a couple TJ’s. Owned an ’08 JK. Serious oil consumption starting around 30K. Traded in. Bought an ’07 JK with 45K on the clock. Same issue….1 quart every 1000 miles. If you go on long trip, you have to pack oil. Love the JK….Hate the engine.
I bought a 2008 Jeep Wrangler 2 door with 24K miles. At 30K miles the engine suddenly seized. I contacted Chrysler who told me to tow it to a Chrysler Dealer which I did. The service dept at Chrysler (Westborough MA) initially told me they would get Chrysler to help me out, but once my jeep was there they changed thier tune and told me it was my fault, I hadn’t maintained the maintenance. When I asked how he knew this he said he didn’t, but since he had never serviced my vehical in the past he had no way of knowing. He then told me I would have to pay $500 for them to diagnose the problem, and then if they determined it was my fault I would be responsible for the repair. He would not put anything in writing. I could not trust him, and calls into Chrysler’s “Good Will” branch told me their hands were tied, they go entirely on what the service dept says. I towed the jeep back to my local repair shop and had to pay $5000 for a new engine. Chrysler refuses to reimburse me, so I’m looking into taking them to small claims court.
My engine seized up after 37,000K miles. Because I am out of warranty, they are “happy to let me pay $2000 for the replacement of my engine. I missed the wonderful and all-powerful Lifetime Powertrain Warranty that came out in July of 2007. I live in Los Angeles and they love a good news story. Sounds like I need to make a phone call to them or see about small claims court. I live on very little money because I have a severe chronic illness. I can’t afford that money? But they said they make business decisions, not emotional ones. Nice!! Way to lose a customer Chrysler!!!